Show notes – 

Join Shannon & Christine as they chat about social wellness with our special guest Jennifer Howell a member of the True Tales by Disability Advocates podcast team.

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Stillpoint – https://www.amazon.com/Stillpoint-Self-Care-Playbook-Caregivers-Breathe/dp/1732370400

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NPR Life Kit show – https://www.npr.org/2022/02/18/1081713756/disability-disabled-people-offensive-better-word

Demystifying Disability: What to Know, What to Say, and How to Be an Ally by Emily Ladau https://www.amazon.com/Demystifying-Disability-What-Know-Ally/dp/1984858971

Art Spark TX – https://www.artsparktx.org/

Reimagine: Grief, Growth, and Justice Schedule – https://letsreimagine.org/spring2022/schedule

No Blame! No Shame! No Guilt! – https://letsreimagine.org/103965/no-shame-no-blame-no-guilt

Additional resources from NPR Life Kit:

Books

Movies

  • Crip Camp: A Disability Revolution (2020)
  • Sins Invalid: An Unshamed Claim to Beauty (2013)

Videos

Show Transcript – 

NOTE: While it’s not perfect, we offer this transcription by Otter.ai for those who are hearing impaired or who don’t find listening to a podcast enjoyable or possible.

Christine Gautreaux 0:08
Let’s do this.

Shannon M. 0:08
Okay ladies, welcome to our podcast. I am Shannon Mitchell, a black female, millennial entrepreneur, the founder of shallow glow, a handmade shea butter company. I am a champion for your self care, business care and intentional wellness.

Christine Gautreaux 0:25
And I am Christine Gautreaux, a white social justice advocate, an international speaker, coach and published author who helps you upgrade yourself in community care.

Shannon M. 0:35
Yes. And together, we are women connected in wisdom, a podcast grounded in the eight dimensions of wellness. Welcome, welcome to our show.

Christine Gautreaux 0:44
And we like to get together every week and have an intentional conversation about how to be wise in business relationships and wellness. Because it’s all connected. Yeah, it is. Right. So what are we talking about today, my friend, who

Shannon M. 0:58
today we are talking about social wellness, what is social wellness, it is about nurturing ourselves, others and our relationships. social wellness consists of not only balancing our own physical, mental, emotional, and spiritual health, but also actively participating as an interdependent piece of the bigger puzzle of humankind. Well,

Christine Gautreaux 1:21
I love that we have that topic today. And I’m probably going to ask you to repeat that in a little bit. Because I want us to talk first before we bring our guest up about like, how that interdependent piece, right, yesterday was International Women’s Day. I was on a board meeting last night, and one of our board members said I’m just mad about this. And I was like what Wait, cuz like, I mean, she’s this incredible published author and, and a feminist. And I was like, what? And she’s like, they only gave us one day, like what the heck. And I was like, Alright, I get that. Amen. With this social wellness piece of the world opening back up. Like, you know, I’ve had more company in the past two weeks than I’ve had in two years. That’s as things start to open up because people are starting to travel again and drop by right. Yeah. And it’s awesome on so many levels. And y’all like our schedules have shifted and changed. And how do we do like, it’s a little awkward. It’s a little awkward to try to figure out how to do some things that we really knew how to do well, two years ago.

Shannon M. 2:30
That’s a good point. No, really even going back into the workforce. I’ll say something. And you know, the moment when somebody’s like, Have a good day, and they’re like, and you just say the wrong response to the wrong thing. I still kind of find myself doing that sometimes. But especially when I started this, like, yeah, I need to like, get used to it again.

Christine Gautreaux 2:50
Right? It’s fascinating. It’s fascinating, the things that are easy. And the things that are hard, like, my sister and I were having this conversation because we’re both very we present very extroverted, she’s much more extroverted than I am, I’m probably more of an ambivert. And I need to go recharge and have my have my practices in place that we’ve talked about on the show before that keep me in balance and in health and wellness. But, you know, she was like, I’m awkward and weird out there. Now, I can’t imagine folks who weren’t good at social interaction before the pandemic, and then maybe better at it, honestly, because we’ve had so much zoom in virtual in some ways that’s easier for folks, like we’re talking about today, where we have an incredible guest who’s a disability advocate. And I know, one of the things that I’ve talked about with several of my colleagues, is the accessibility that virtual and streaming have given so many people. So I just have a curiosity around it. I’d love if you’re listening all if you’re listening live, give us a comment. Like, how are you doing out there? Is it awkward for you as the world opens back up? Or have you got this? And if so, give us your best tip on how you’re doing it. Because you know, we love resources here at women connect with. So, my friend, what’s your reading?

Shannon M. 4:16
Oh, right now I thought about grabbing it. I should have grabbed it. Of course. I love me more. Right by Jenna banks.

Christine Gautreaux 4:23
Were just yesterday. It’s amazing. Shout out to Jenna banks. On last season. She launched it yesterday. I love me more. All right. What do you think give us the review

Shannon M. 4:36
is really good. And it’s interesting. I’m glad that I talked to her. I’m glad she was on the show. Because I feel like I don’t know if I would have skipped over the story where she was at dinner with her friend right, telling her why she was going to break up with this guy that she loved and cared about so much. She said she I love me more and her friend didn’t get it. You know it reminds me of my personal story with you shallow glow. And I thought that I was going to be out here trying to convince people to put something on their skin after the shower. And it’s really, we’re not taking care of ourselves at all. And why is that? You know, so I love it. Hello,

Christine Gautreaux 5:12
product. You know every day love glow, you’ve got me trained I have to I have to get it out and put someone because it is honestly the best in y’all if you haven’t tried Shiloh glow and the shea butter, especially right now as the weather is getting colder again, again and or, you know I love it. I said this last year, I garden and I was out in my yard this weekend, I was planning some walking blue irises that a neighbor shared with me. And I came back in after gardening and yes, I had gloves on and everything. And my hands were so dry, I immediately washed them and went and got my shea butter. So I just have to give you gratitude and thanks for an incredible product because it keeps me keeps me healthy.

Shannon M. 5:55
Hello. And when I think about it, I think about one of my actually one of my investors, Heather, she told me she’s a nurse and she says she uses it multiple times a day. And at first I didn’t like that I said you know I don’t want I want it to last as long as possible because it lasts a long time. But of course, your clothes take away moisture, right your gloves might if you’re gardening, take away moisture. But when I think about Jenna bakes book and loving me mourn what it takes to take care of yourself. Sometimes it’s not what you want it to be it’s your body needs moisture multiple times a day, just like water. So it is what it is. But I’m glad to have a product that has helped so many people. And of course I use it I know you’re not supposed to. I was watching this movie, and they talked about not getting high on your own supply. But shea butter. That is not the case. Okay, I use it. I love it.

Christine Gautreaux 6:47
Right? Well knew I also love because it’s the integrity of it too, right? You’re not gonna put anything on your skin or on your body that is not healthy for you. And you wouldn’t do the same with your customers. So I love that. So I love that a lot. All right, let’s talk. Give a shout out to that definition one more time. And then let’s bring our guests up here and start this conversation.

Shannon M. 7:10
Okay, let’s do it. So social wellness is about nurturing ourselves, others and our relationship. social wellness consists of not only balancing our own physical, mental, emotional, and spiritual health, but also actively participating as an interdependent piece of the bigger puzzle of humankind.

Christine Gautreaux 7:31
Oh, I love that. I can’t I’m excited to have this conversation. So y’all our next guest, Jennifer, how we found each other on LinkedIn. And so if I am we’re streaming live on LinkedIn right now just know the power of LinkedIn, and meeting incredible people. No, I was not paid to pay that say that for LinkedIn. But I did give that shout out because I’ve met some of the just most delightful people on LinkedIn and the power of their work. So Jennifer, I’m gonna pull this up here, so I’ll make sure I say it all correctly. Jennifer is a member of the podcast working group for the art Spark, Texas hosts that host True Tales by disability advocates podcast on each of the podcast Working Group teams, they rotate jobs as host, producer, Sound Editor, etc. And many have also been guests on the podcast as well. So we’re going to talk about that podcast and we’re going to talk about Jennifer and what she does. She is a disability advocate. She is accessibility and creative placemaking consultant. She is also a teacher, an artist and a writer. She’s just incredible. And she is from Austin, Texas. So we have a lot to talk about there too. So come on up here, Jennifer. Hello. Hello. Hello. Welcome to women connected in wisdom podcast.

Jennifer Howell 8:56
How are you? I’m doing very well. Thank you.

Christine Gautreaux 9:01
I am so delighted to have you on and have this conversation. And we have already we started the conversation earlier today. And I would love to start out with what you reached out to me and said and the remainder of our Converse I would love to have this conversation on air.

Jennifer Howell 9:20
Okay, okay. Well, it um, this morning, we were talking about the graphic promoting and announcing today’s episode. And you had used the word differently abled. Yeah. And I suggested that maybe it would be better to use just the word disabled instead of differently abled. Now, some persons prefer the term differently abled, but others prefer otherwise, you know, just use the word disabled and so it started a whole conversation about terms. And I hope that we can talk about this here today because I have visited with a lot of people who are afraid to just say anything, because they’re so afraid of saying the wrong thing. And they don’t want to offend anyone. So they don’t say anything. And many people are left out, they don’t feel included. They feel avoided. Just because nice folks are afraid of saying the wrong thing.

Christine Gautreaux 10:35
I love that Jennifer yes to having this conversation, and why it’s so important. So you share the resource with me that we’re going to share with our listeners from NPR is life kit. It’s called Don’t be scared to talk about disabilities. Here’s what to know and what to say. And we’re going to talk about it a little bit on the show probably a lot more. I want to hear your personal story. But before we jump into that, y’all, let’s start with some numbers. More than 1 billion people, nearly 15% of the world’s population experienced some form of disability. In the United States alone, that’s about 61 million people, or one out of every four adults live, at least with one disability. And y’all, here’s the thing to know about this. This is the one marginalized group that anybody could become a part of it anytime, temporarily, or forever, at any point in your life. So it is you saying that Jennifer about people don’t want to talk about it, y’all, we got to talk about this. So Jennifer, will you share with our listeners your personal story, and why you got into this work and a little bit about you? Okay,

Jennifer Howell 11:58
okay. Well, my father had polio when he was a young boy. And so So of course, I knew him to have disabilities from birth. Although I don’t know, at what point in time it even occurred to me that I was just in preparation for this podcast. I was just remembering something that happened to me when I was a very young child. My father was taking me to the babysitter’s and I was following him into her home behind him. And I was copying him. I was limping, just as he was. And I, after he drops me off and leaves, the childcare provider really flew into me, oh, I was being so rude and making fun of my father and men never even I didn’t even know what she’s talking about. But anyway, so I threw that story in so so we’ve really a bit, but I, um, I guess I’m sharing that to try to explain what that feels like, have have, it was just it. I didn’t really think of it as a disability. And I didn’t even know, you know, so. So that and then, when I was 12 years old, my mother was diagnosed with a brain tumor, and had several different surgeries and radiation therapy and, and the tumor and the treatment left her with several different disabilities. And so, and later, as an adult, I was her caregiver. So you would think that a person that grew up in that world, and then I could tell you other things, too, not just family experiences, but anyway, you would think that I was would be extra sensitive, and maybe maybe even more knowledgeable, and, anyway, that I would see things that others wouldn’t see or know things that other wouldn’t. Others wouldn’t know. And, and that probably was true. But when I became disabled, I started to see things I’d never seen before. And it really, it shocked me, it embarrassed me. I was I was embarrassed. I thought how could I have not seen this before? With with my parents both being disabled, but there really is something to it being you. That’s the I gotta tell you that’s it’s hard to admit out loud because it makes me feel like I was. I don’t know, what’s the word selfish. But but it’s, it’s true. And when I, when I shared this with others, I got a lot of it really it really opened up a conversation that I was, I was really glad to have because others were glad to have it with me. And I didn’t know it was such an important conversation. Right.

Christine Gautreaux 15:45
Thank you, thank you for bringing your whole truth and your whole self. And being honest about that. Because I think that is probably true for more like people listening maybe going be too right like it because we don’t know until we walk a mile in somebody’s shoes, right? That that what their life is and what they’re experiencing and what they’re bringing, and how hard it can be or how great it is. Or, you know, that was the thing about the NPR podcast, or I don’t know if it’s an episode or show or what they called it. But you know, Emily was talking about in that in her conversation about it’s just her life. Like you were saying that about your parents. That’s what she said. She said, I don’t see myself as disabled. It’s just my life. It’s what I have going on. And I’m willing to have the conversation and be an advocate. But it’s not something that I’m like it we I think we frame it differently. When we’re not in that situation, or when we don’t know or we haven’t. We haven’t researched it and learned about it right when something’s completely foreign to us.

Shannon M. 16:51
Yeah. So Jennifer, what one thing that I that your story makes me question is, what are the things that you came to realize when you started having arthritis and different things go on?

Jennifer Howell 17:06
That’s such a huge question. I’ve learned so much in the last year, year and a half is especially being in this pod crackcast working group. I’ve really developed some friendships there. Let’s see, it started for like one of the things that I noticed or all of these things that were inaccessible. Now why, I mean, surely, I must have noticed that before with my parents, but I don’t really know how to explain it. It was just like, I was so aware, I was so much more aware, I was noticing things that I hadn’t noticed before. And you notice, wow, you can’t get in this building at all, unless you climb the stairs. Or, you know, I was thinking of like gait shows that are very physical. I don’t ever see what why don’t they have games for persons in wheelchairs or other physical disabilities that, you know, they’re up there jumping around, and just stuff like that. I just started noticing things everywhere all the time, every day, just like that, like, like, all kinds of events, and places that leave a huge portion of the population out.

Christine Gautreaux 18:41
Right? We’ve been talking, you know about language. Oh, Brandi. Yep, here comes brandy Lee, our friend and author, and she says, ooh, I am loving the disabilities combo. Absolutely. Yeah, we’ve also been talking about how much ableist language there is in, in our world and in our culture, that things we say on the regular, leave a whole bunch of people out, you know, really, that if we’re not intentional around it if we’re not, if we really haven’t had the experience or have friends or loved ones and really opened our eyes about it, that we’re probably most of us walking around using ableist language and doing things that could be causing harm that we’re not even aware of.

Shannon M. 19:32
So when you talk about that language, Christine, what do you need? Because I know we talked we started with differently abled and disabled right, like the terms. I’ve been saying differently abled since I found out about it to make sure I’m inclusive and sensitive and aware that somebody might see it as a derogatory category that people might put them in. But if it’s preferred to say disable and let that person correct you no problem. Right. So Christine was verbiage Do you see,

Christine Gautreaux 20:01
when we’re talking about ableist language? So a good thing like comes in when I teach interplay, because, you know, interplay is very physical, and it’s head to toe, right. And if we often say at the beginning of our sessions, you know, move your body, how your body needs to move, or, you know, if I asked you to do something in your party, if your body doesn’t move that way, please make adjustments, right. So even the words, if you’re willing, and able, if you’re willing, and able is some ableist language, like, if you are willing, like, right, I mean, there’s things we say in our culture every day that exclude people. And so I’m walking forward. If you’ve got people in your class that are using wheelchairs, they may need to roll forward, or they may need to move forward. It’s just little adjustments and paying attention. You know, it is paying attention to that, just because our world is this way doesn’t mean the person in the room with us their world is this way. And we’ve had a lot of these conversations around race and different anti racist work and opening it up to like the the disability community. And how are ways that I mean, we always talk about this right, in our activism work about who’s not at the table? Yeah, well, you know, in that in the story, we were listening to today, they talked about, you know, a lot of folks with disability can’t even get to the table, because it’s on a second floor, and there’s no elevator to get him there. Right. Like, yeah, so how do we how do we be more inclusive, and I think that starts just like with this conversation, about having a conversation.

Shannon M. 21:46
And I will even say that, and this is social wellness, right? The overall considerations. For example, one of my very best friends has sickle cell. And it wasn’t until maybe COVID, that I realized, maybe that’s why we had the breaks and communication, you know, she’s two years older than me. So as we were growing up, every now and then we will talk a lot, and then we want to talk a lot, we will talk a lot. And I used to say you had this that she would disappear, you know, and not in a combative or angry way, but sometimes that I feel like you might not be here, but maybe she was in the hospital and didn’t want to consistently put that weight on me, or always have to explain it and talk about it to people who wouldn’t understand, but she was in the hospital. So that’s understandable, you know. And like you said, Jennifer, like things that you don’t even think about, because it’s not you. And then when it’s you now you see things completely differently. So with COVID, in the time gaps, and everybody having more stuff on their plate, I’ve started thinking about my social support, and being more understanding that maybe they can’t support me or be there, how I would want them to, and I need to do that for myself. But it’s always been that way, you know,

Jennifer Howell 22:58
I don’t want anyone to be if you don’t mind me jumping in here. Um, all of this is great to talk about. And I really want to encourage people to educate themselves. Okay. And, and I’m trying to do that, and it’s an ongoing process. But the I think the main takeaway I have from all of these conversations that I’ve had, is that they don’t guess yes, we want people to use the right terminology. You know, we want people to care enough to ask to use the right terminology. But what’s more important than that is to just be included. Yeah. So just because, you know, somebody might hear my story and think, Oh, my goodness, she was around disability your whole life. And she, she didn’t even know. So how in the world am I going to know? Right? You know, or how can I, you know, again, once again, we don’t want them to be afraid about using the wrong terminology. And folk folks just want to be included, you know, and know, you care and know you’re trying and well,

Christine Gautreaux 24:09
and I loved what you said earlier, when we were prepping for the show, Jennifer, like it changes, right? Sometimes the language changes, sometimes we’ll read it at one organization, and you’re like, oh, they I can’t remember Shannon, if it was you that Senator Jennifer that says it like, Oh, this is the way to do it, because this is what they are saying like whether it’s a really respected organization, or a person in the disability community that you respect and admire, and, and you got to lead with the person and the individual that’s in front of you and build that relationship. And it’s kind of like when we ask somebody your pronouns, like, what do you want to be called? Like, what do you want to how do you identify how do you and then I think personally, it gets a little tricky in the disability community, because not all disabilities are visible, right. And some Often you may be working beside somebody walking beside rolling beside being online with somebody that you have no idea that they have a disability. So then we got to backtrack. And let’s like treat each other. Let’s treat everybody with respect, and kindness. And, and as we expand our awareness and get to be in relationship, often people share with us. Yeah.

Shannon M. 25:27
And I was having a conversation with one of my managers the other night. And he was, he gave an example that he gave his youth group when he used to be over there, he said, you might know a lot of things about God. But do you know God, you know, and ask him if there was anything that I could do better in my new role. He said, continue to get to know your staff. And if I think I do a great job at asking questions and first impressions, all those things are great, right? But what about really knowing this person? That’s what I’m working on now. And so I think that’s what we’re talking about here. You know, you can know all of these things, but this person that you meet is still going to be different. So what does this person need and whether it’s from an organization standpoint, making sure that your building is set up to accommodate, or whether it’s the way the event flows, and making sure that we’re accommodating our participants who we want to come? Being aware of what they need, and then meeting meeting everybody, there is the best step forward in my mind right now. Right? Yeah.

Christine Gautreaux 26:31
Well, and things that I’m learning through the alternate routes community, and we haven’t completely put them into practice in this podcast. But you know, when we’re live streaming, you can turn on your closed caption, and just see the words across the string in case hearing may be an issue. Or if you’re at work, I mean, there’s the AI is not completely, but like I realized even today, like we don’t usually do visual descriptors. So you know, if we were to do a visual Descriptor to be inclusive, that might look something like this. Hey, y’all. I’m Christine Gautreaux. I am a white middle aged woman who has long brown hair, it’s a little wavy today, I’m wearing some red glasses. I have, I’m wearing a purple top with some black and white on it. And a necklace that’s a copper circle that I got thrifting and it’s really cool. And my background is will the way stream yard set up is you kind of just see the tan wall behind me and you see a hint of a bookshelf behind me. So Shannon, if you were to do a visual descriptor, give our listeners a visual descriptor.

Shannon M. 27:43
Yeah. And I’ll start with saying the first time we did this, I was like horrible at it because I usually don’t give visual descriptors, right, so my hair is the star with my hair. My hair is red and orange at the tips. It is put up in a ponytail with luck petals. And those look like flower petals. There’s just like an oval circular shape. And I have on a soft cheetah print shirt with some skinny gold hoops and some lime green nail polish. Okay, in my background is very tan. And what else? Oh, beautiful color of your skin. Yeah, that is important. All right, so my melanated skin. I’m African American with high cheekbones and a wide smile.

Christine Gautreaux 28:33
Jennifer, you want to do

Jennifer Howell 28:33
lovely? Yes, yes. I am a fair skinned woman in my late 50s with long silver hair, and red framed eyeglasses and a colorful scar. I am here in my home classroom. You can see see, there’s maps behind me. And I use the pronouns she her.

Christine Gautreaux 29:03
Thank you. Yeah, I mean, you know, this is the thing about the show. If you don’t know how to do it, you got to practice and start doing it. And Bing, I was on an accessibility call with alternate routes before I got on here. And I have a colleague named Corey, and they have a show called me and my blind guy, Cory has a site disability, and he is blind. And so he is a jokester. And so when he gets on and does his visual descriptor like today he got on and he says I’m a white male and he is dark ever use uses to see you and he’s like No, no, y’all I’m waiting for somebody to correct me because, you know, so but we practice together you know, we practice and when when a skill is, well let me back up. We’re not good at things when we first start like you It’s okay to not be good at something. It’s okay to be awkward at it. It’s okay to have to learn that to me. I think that’s part of our culture, we think, Oh, they get it. They know how to do it. Well, yeah, because they’ve practiced, right, they’ve practiced, they’ve said the words, whether you practice in the mirror, whether you talk with friends, whether you have these conversations. Now, I gotta, I gotta put a little side note in here. It’s kind of like, with our friends of color, like don’t put the emotional labor on them. Don’t go to somebody using a wheelchair and start asking them all kinds of questions. That’s not their job. It’s not emotional labor, like, do your research. Read your book, like today on this NPR thing we’re going to cite? This young woman, Emily Ledoux, has a new book out called demystifying disability, what to know what to say and how to be an ally. And we will link that in our show notes. Listen to Jennifer’s, the podcast, she’s a part of which I want you to talk about that in just a second, Jennifer about True Tales of disability, like, do your research. If you have friends that have a disability, you might ask them a question, Hey, I’d love to have a conversation about this with you. When’s a good time? Or would you be open to this conversation? Don’t just assume that they want to have the conversation. And don’t just assume that it’s their job to educate you. So I just want to I want to put that out there that that we don’t want to put a mental labor on folks that are not willing to take that on? Because it can be.

Jennifer Howell 31:32
I totally agree with you, Christine. Don’t assume. However, again, my experience, just in some of the discussions that I I’ve had, a lot of times people do want to talk about it, they’re glad you asked. So there’s that, um, I want to end thank you for talking about practicing, you can see that I see. And I’m using the word see a lot.

Christine Gautreaux 32:01
But it’s so true. It’s okay. Like you’re Gagan, it still can be challenging. So I love that you say that, because our culture is such an ableist culture that we don’t even realize,

Jennifer Howell 32:15
I Yes, I am going to tell you about another article maybe. And then you can decide if you want to list that in the show notes too. And, oh, it was so good. Talking about the difference between the medical model and the social model. Okay, and I, I’ve got information about that I can’t off the top of my head give you all the details. But it really is, it’s it’s more than just being aware, like I mentioned, and using the correct terminology, like we discussed about it really is a new way of thinking. Some of the work that I’ve been involved in recently about learning what racism is and learning. You know, some of that, that I’ve been a part of, again, things that I never saw before. Like, oh, are things I never understood or was aware of like, I don’t know, maybe you maybe you can speak on that a little bit. I’m kind of getting on to another subject. But but it’s it’s it’s similar in that. Oh, no, no. No, I don’t want to compare I’m sorry, that was wrong to do to, I guess, no. This is what I meant to say. A new way of thinking,

Christine Gautreaux 33:48
right? Being open to learning. What about being open to learn? And understanding that we don’t know what we don’t know. Shannon, you look like you were about to say something? And then your tech froze my friend.

Shannon M. 34:01
Yeah. And then it’s a whole paradigm shift. You know, when your mind stretches to a place with new information that it never went before. And I feel like we can ask all the questions, read all the books and have all the conversations with all the different people that we come in contact with. But until it’s us, you’re still not going to fully understand, you know, I didn’t fully understand. So my mom passed away. I said, Oh, my goodness, this is what people mean, when they say somebody passed away. I had no idea. You know what I mean? And that’s, I genuinely feel like that’s how it is with everything. And so now when I say I understand, I usually include I understand as much as I can without ever being in that situation. I don’t know what it’s like to roll up to a building that Top Golf has three storeys, I don’t know what that’s like, you know what I mean? Thankfully, they have accommodations, but not every building does. So I can empathize and be an ally like we talked about, but I also know that that’s not something I have to do. Consider on a daily basis. So I may have some blind spots and some things that I could consider more. Because I usually don’t have to include that on my list of all of the things that I think about on a daily basis. And my things that I think about are different than somebody else’s things that they think about. So even if somebody is in a wheelchair, they might not have to deal with other things that I have to deal with as a woman, or as you know, somebody with long hair, my head, my head’s heavier, you know, not to minimize anything, but our positions are different. And that’s the beauty of being connected, we can all teach each other different things from our different perspectives and levels of understanding. Thank you. Yeah. That’s what I’m here

Christine Gautreaux 35:54
to tell our listeners, Jennifer, about art spark, and about the true tales of disability podcast,

Jennifer Howell 35:59
okay, well, a while back, I decided I’ve, I’ve done some freelancing in recent years. And I decided I wanted to write about advocacy for for persons with disabilities, and well in stories and share stories. And I came across this I, I found art Spark, Texas, and they had a program for speaking advocates. And it’s a program they’ve had that program for quite a few years. And, and I found out I could sign up during the pandemic, and do that virtually. And it’s a wonderful program, speaking, speaking advocates, and, by the way, aren’t Spark, Texas, their website is art, Spark, t x.org. They have all kinds of wonderful programs and services and events. And this is just one of many. But I joined the speaking advocates group, and went through the training and the graduation and learn that that was yet one more way that I could communicate, share stories advocate would be public speaking. And then graduates of the speaking advocacy program were invited to be in their first ever podcast class. That’s how I ended up there. The podcast class became a podcast working group because we actually developed created the True Tales by disability advocates, podcast. Now here for the first season or two, I don’t know. Bit here at the beginning of the podcast, the the guests are all graduates from the speaking advocates program. And the working group is two teams that as you mentioned earlier, we take turns being host and get host and guest and sound editor and producer and all of that. And it’s been a really incredible experience for me, the least of which really was learning about how to make a podcast, honestly, of course, I’m, I’m I’m glad that I’m learning that. But the real education is what I have learned from my new friends

Christine Gautreaux 38:54
and love that, you know, I love, I love that you’re speaking to that, Jennifer, because we’ve had that conversation on the show several times how when you get involved in community, when you get involved in activism, like often, you’re like, oh, I don’t have time for that, or oh, I don’t know what I’m doing, or, Oh, that’s dangerous, depending on what you’re doing. And what I have found in the years of activism I’ve done is community and friendships, and so much depth of knowledge that I would have never been exposed to in any other way. And so, you know, it is one of those things, yes, get involved. Like if you have a passion for something, if you, you know, are affected by something if you are, because that’s the other thing about activism in my own experience is it helps you not to feel helpless. Like you’re out there, Jennifer speaking and talking to it and making a difference and, you know, it’s awesome. Thank you for what you’re doing. Thank you Shannon, you have any last questions because I am paying attention to the time and we’ve got we’ve got a little bit before we wrap but

Shannon M. 40:08
hmm. So I think I do have a question and there might be two. So we talked about your dad’s polio, right? We talked about your mom and her diagnosis when you were 12. When we talk about wellness, and balancing thing, and balance is questionable, right, but we’ll use it for lack of a better word, balancing things with your self care. How did you do that with family members with disabilities?

Jennifer Howell 40:34
Do you mean as a caregiver? Is that what you’re asking about

Shannon M. 40:37
as a caregiver, and socially with the way that it affected your social dynamics with the people in your family, your your community, your neighbors, or your friends,

Christine Gautreaux 40:46
because here’s the thing, where where we talk with a lot of women, Jennifer, almost every woman we know, is a caregiver in one form or another, whether it’s for parents, whether it’s for children, whether it’s for their community, whether it’s for their jobs, like so we Yeah, so how do you do it?

Jennifer Howell 41:05
Oh, I, I was, well, you you asked. I was 29 years old. And I was the oldest one and oldest child in my family. My parents were divorced. And I was 29 years old, when the doctor said, The doctor called us all in and said, Your your mother is unit, you need to start looking for nursing home. And that, you know, they didn’t know how long she would have to live, they really just didn’t have any other. They didn’t have any idea how long that she would live, but they knew that she was going to continue to have small strokes. It was from the radiation therapy, and that she would just become more and more disabled over time. And, and honestly, at the age of 29 100 slicked backs, you know, just babies. My my brother’s younger than me, we had not we, we we had no idea we, you know, we nurse nursing home, we couldn’t imagine. And we didn’t know even we didn’t know anything. We didn’t know anything about financially. So I don’t know, I don’t even know, if I knew what self care was then really high, you know, so it’s kind of hard to answer your question. Yeah, um, I won’t go into that anymore, except for to just say, Oh, I’m just that time that I spent with my mom, up, it’s so precious. To me. It was very, very difficult in every way. But it’s so precious that I had that time with her at the end of her life, which ended up being me see, she came to live with me in the early 90s. It was, it was almost 10 years, and most of that 10 years, she lived with me lived with my brothers for a little while, had some time did spend some time in a nursing home. I’m sorry, I didn’t really answer your question.

Christine Gautreaux 43:18
So, so what let’s do it this way, Jennifer, looking back, if you could say to your younger self, now with your wisdom, and what you know, what, what would be one self care tip? Or one thing you would say to your younger self? In the midst of caregiving?

Jennifer Howell 43:38
Okay, I’m going to just answer the first thing that came to my mind, okay, when you ask, and that is, follow your heart. Because I had a lot of people telling me you need to do this, you should do that. You can’t do that you shouldn’t do that. You you need to do this. And I just Just follow your heart. You know, I mean, they, there was a time we had to make some really difficult decisions. And, and I mean, I appreciate everyone caring and, and offering advice. But ultimately, you have to do what’s right for you and your family. Right. We’re what you think is that the time

Christine Gautreaux 44:20
talk about inner authority and body wisdom. And that’s what it sounds like you’re talking about there, Jennifer, checking in with your heart and your values and following your inner authority is what you know, to be best for yourself and your family members.

Shannon M. 44:35
Yeah. And I think it’s, it’s also a natural place where you were, you know, I have friends right now that are going through stuff and that’s where they have no idea what to do. And that’s why we have this podcast How do we do it? What about the finances? What about the physical What about the mental and emotional because that’s a lot, you know, and I stepped down from my salary position the first one and took that time before She passed away, because I would have been highly upset. Had I not taken the opportunity to, you know, and sometimes people see the gap, like you said, you know, back and say I should have followed my heart instead of listening to everybody around them. So that’s why we build up and we come together. So we need to do.

Christine Gautreaux 45:18
Thank you, Shannon, you cut out just a smidge on that last part. But I think what you said is, that’s why we lift each other and build each other up and come together as we do. Yeah. Oh, yeah. All right, y’all, we’re about at that time of the show where it’s time to say our wisdom and action. So Jennifer, what we ask every guest towards the end, is if you had to hashtag from something about our conversation today about social wellness and being a disability advocate, what would your hashtag be? What would your wisdom and action what would you tell folks to go? Well, we can go first. And I think my wisdom and action from this week is going to be I think I’m going to read Emily’s ladoos book, this demystifying disability, what to know what to say and how to be an ally, because I appreciate you providing me with that resource. And I’m also my other hashtag is going to go be listened to the true tales of disability podcast. What you got Shannon,

Shannon M. 46:17
I like that I like to listen to the true tales. I then need more information. You know, I think that I have guests bond, different things, that kind of people, you know, so hashtag immerse myself in the conversation.

Christine Gautreaux 46:32
Immerse yourself in the conversation. I like it. Thanks. Your tech is given a little bit of an issue just right here at the last minute, what you got for us, Jennifer?

Jennifer Howell 46:41
Okay, well, we’ll help me out in making this hashtag. But again, what I keep hearing from my friends, and what I’m what I’m feeling myself is include us,

Christine Gautreaux 46:58
right? Nothing about us with a hashtag Nothing about us without us. And hashtag include us. I would also say hashtag Who? Who? Who’s missing from the table? Right? Like looking around y’all. Let’s say let’s include everybody. I like that. Being aware of that. Right? Yeah, absolutely. Jennifer, thank you so much for your time, and her being here with us today. This has been such a good conversation, like and I appreciate you. And thanks for like reaching out on LinkedIn and us getting connected. That has been super fun. And I look forward to more.

Shannon M. 47:39
So thank you so much, Jennifer.

Jennifer Howell 47:41
Thank you.

Christine Gautreaux 47:43
Oh, my goodness, Shannon, that was such a good conversation. So grateful as always to be in conversation with you and to just keep figuring this out. Right that we don’t have to do this by ourselves. Oh,

Shannon M. 47:58
no, no. And we will see you ladies week five and don’t forget, be well be wise. And we hope to see you soon.

Christine Gautreaux 48:09
See you soon.

Unknown Speaker 48:15
Thanks for listening. This has been the women connected in wisdom podcast on air live on Wednesdays at 5pm. Eastern via Facebook and YouTube. Be sure to like, share and subscribe be part of the conversation and get connected at women connected in wisdom.com.