Show notes – 

Join Shannon & Christine as they chat about Occupational Wellness this week with special guest Dr. Sarah Brown.

Shealo Glo – www.shealoglo.com  Now offering Subscriptions * Delivered on the 1st & 15th!

Stillpoint – https://www.amazon.com/Stillpoint-Self-Care-Playbook-Caregivers-Breathe/dp/1732370400

Join us in community: https://women-connected-in-wisdom.mn.co/feed

Listen to past episodes: https://womenconnectedinwisdompodcast.com/

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Book a free coaching consult with Christine here: https://www.christinegautreaux.com

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Instagram @womenconnectedinwisdompodcast – https://www.instagram.com/womenconnectedinwisdompodcast/

How to connect with our guest Dr. Sarah E. Brown

bookofyou.com; sarahebrown.com

FB: bookofyou.com

LinkedIn: Sarah E. Brown, Ph. D.

Twitter: @knowguides

Lead from the Outside – Stacey Abrams

4 agreements – https://www.amazon.com/Four-Agreements-Practical-Personal-Freedom/dp/1878424319

Brene Brown – https://brenebrown.com/

The Great Resignations – https://www.businessinsider.com/great-resignation-women-pay-gap-quitting-jobs-to-make-more-2022-3#:~:text=For%20women%20still%20in%20the,research%20group%2C%20found%20last%20month.

Andrew Huberman – https://hubermanlab.com/using-play-to-rewire-and-improve-your-brain/

KTS Factor Podcast – https://www.sarahebrown.com/podcast

Show Transcript – 

NOTE: While it’s not perfect, we offer this transcription by Otter.ai for those who are hearing impaired or who don’t find listening to a podcast enjoyable or possible.

Christine Gautreaux 0:08
Let’s do this.

Shannon M. 0:08
Okay ladies, welcome to our podcast. I am Shannon Mitchell, a black female, millennial entrepreneur, the founder of Shiloh glow, a handmade shea butter company. I am a champion for your self care, business care and intentional wellness.

Christine Gautreaux 0:25
And I am Christine Gautreaux, a white social justice advocate and international speaker, coach and published author who helps you upgrade yourself and community care.

Shannon M. 0:35
Yes. And together we are women connected in wisdom, a podcast grounded in the eight dimensions of wellness. Welcome, welcome to our show.

Christine Gautreaux 0:44
And we like to get together every week and have intentional conversations about how to be wise in business relationships and, and wellness. Like, there’s more than one dimension. How the heck do we do that? I want to give a shout out to a Daris Rivera who’s listening today. Good afternoon. And on LinkedIn, welcome. Glad you’re here. Yes, I probably butchered your name. And if so I apologize. All right. So this week, we’re talking about occupational wellness. And, you know, I don’t know who says confession is good for the soul. But somebody says it’s good for the soul. And I know you’re about to read this definition. And I’m sure in there is a word about balance. And you know, we talked recently about Stacey Abrams book leading from the outside in and how she talks about work life Janga instead of work life balance, which you know, you pull a little bit which I think is so appropriate. So how is your work life Jenga coming this week, my friend?

Shannon M. 1:55
We are. And again, I’m proud of myself for the new levels of operation that I see in the execution of stuff. And I will say if we’re referring to Jenga, I will say we’re balancing Well, you know, there’s definitely pieces moving but we’re, we’re sturdy, definitely and I just play Jenga, so it’s perfect.

Christine Gautreaux 2:20
Probably a little out of balance, like right before we got online I realized like my phone’s dead which is always one of my indicators it because it was charged full time this morning. So you know, I always laugh and when somebody calls and says your voicemails full and I’m like, so it’s my calendar in my life. So or the the angel one, which is not as much true anymore because of the pandemic and how much we work from home. But, you know, used to if I’d run out of gas, literally in my car, I’d be like, Oh, I’m not a gas everywhere else because I’m not paying attention. Right? Yeah.

Shannon M. 2:56
And there was one time and we talked about that sometimes, right? There was literally a day I was driving my friend’s car. We’re actually with my mom, I think in Atlanta, and he has a Versace shirt on, right. I don’t know how much it costs, but I know they’re not inexpensive. Okay. And again, this is his car that I’m driving. And we run out of gas. Now my car I know that if it’s past into you still got a little way he’s right, this new Honda that I got a few years ago. Now it tells me literally how many miles and I know I probably still push it past that this car. Read it wrong. So he’s out pushing a car in the heat and a Versace shirt. He was good. He didn’t have attitude, I would have had an attitude if I had an expensive shirt on. But how do you miss the gauge? You know? So for me, it was like, Don’t let yourself run out. I try not to get below half. And I was dead yesterday too. So

Christine Gautreaux 3:48
yeah, it is a good indicator. Like don’t let yourself get below half. Right. Yeah. And being intentional and paying attention and you know, asking that question, how does it happen? I mean, we know how it happens is women who are dancing fast and you know have a lot of really cool and amazing projects going on. And I can’t wait to talk to our guests today because she has got some wisdom around occupational wellness, and I am delighted so you got ready to bring her up. I’m absolutely ready. All right, let’s bring her up. I am so excited about our guest y’all. Oh before we bring up our guest read the definition of occupational wellness.

Shannon M. 4:31
We have to do that, don’t we? Okay, ation of wellness represents the feeling of purpose and productivity in one’s chosen profession. This pillar is certainly a key element to what we refer to as work life balance as an enrich and productive professional life is certainly required to mesh with a healthy personal life.

Christine Gautreaux 4:53
Yep. And our guest today is an author, trainer and podcaster Dr. Sara Lee Brown is focused on helping women gain clarity on career goals, the tools to achieve them and the support to stay on track. Her goal is that each woman is happy, successful and understood at work. Well, I’m gonna read that again, her goal is that each woman is happy, successful and understood at work, a former managing director at a center, she has a PhD in psycho educational processes, and 25 years in talent management experience. And I am really lucky and grateful to say she’s also my friend, and I’ve been in community with her for the past five years. So yay, Sarah Brown. Welcome to our show.

Sarah Brown 5:46
Christine and Shannon, thank you so much for having me. I’m excited to be here.

Christine Gautreaux 5:50
Are you kidding? We are so delighted that you are here to have this conversation. So will you tell our listeners Sarah, like what you do in the world, and how you, I read it in your bio, but tell people what you do with women,

Sarah Brown 6:05
I coach and I train, those are the two predominant things that I do, I run corporate programs where I’m helping women learn how to self coach and pure coach so that they get clear about what’s important to them. And they can put actionable plans in place to achieve it. And I write books, The Book of you, which you see behind me is like a coach and a book. And I do private coaching. So I guess you can say, I’m an all around coach, I do it in all kinds of fashions, I teach people to do it, I do it myself. And I train on it.

Christine Gautreaux 6:43
I love it. And I want to speak to the book of you, because I use that with my coaching clients thanks to you, because you have a service for coaches, that they can access the book of you and have their clients fill it out and have customized copies for them to where it’s a jumping off point for coaches working with clients working around career issues. And I just want to give a personal testimony to it. Because when I’m working with a client that is working on career issues, or that’s unhappy with their career, or dissatisfied or not knowing what to do when I use that tool. It’s amazing. The leaps and bounds that they make are amazing. So yeah, I’m not sure who this LinkedIn user is because they’re not logged in. But Sarah is a Jill of all trades. Yes, it is.

Sarah Brown 7:37
What a great tribute to the book of you.

Christine Gautreaux 7:45
It’s powerful, right? And I think and I am guessing the answer to this, but I want you to speak to it a little bit when you talk about that you want women to be happy, successful and understood it work. How? How did they get there? How do you do that?

Sarah Brown 8:05
If individuals, particularly women are working on their passions, they’re working on things that interests them. They’re using their strengths so that it’s relatively easy. And they’re working in environments that support them that meet their needs, they’re going to be happy, successful and understood, by definition. So what I’m focused on is helping women get very, very clear about what are those interests or passions? What are their strengths? And more importantly, and this is the one that women seem to fall down on? What is the environment that’s going to support them to actually be free to do that? What are their motivational needs? And how can they find a way to get them met at work, or at least outside of work so that they’re not continually in stress? My term not understood, and thus are freed up to pursue their interest in using their strengths.

Christine Gautreaux 9:03
Right. I love that. I love that. And I know Shannon can speak to this too, because she’s worked in some corporate environments where she wasn’t understood.

Shannon M. 9:13
You know, and it’s been really interesting, but I’ve I’ve also had a beautiful journey. And I love that you have your background and what was it psycho education? What is your PhD in?

Sarah Brown 9:26
Psycho educational processes is a combination of group psychology and adult learning. And that the manifestation of it in corporate life is generally around change management or organization development. Also use somewhat in talent management, which is the way I use that.

Shannon M. 9:45
I hear you. And so taking psychology and realizing that any new group of teammates is going to have to the forming, storming and norming the different developmental stages even catching up One individual to a certain level of understanding whether it’s within the business or within professional etiquette, how you handle things, we were talking about how to self coach and coach peer to peer, right? It’s difficult to have those conversations. And so through work in in the hospitality industry for 10 years now, yes, it’s been interesting to learn those things and see how me operating a certain way can change the dynamic of a situation like possible fights between co workers and all different types of things.

Sarah Brown 10:33
It, you’re absolutely right. And one of the interesting things about strengths and needs is, is we don’t always know what an individual’s needs are just by the way they typically behave. So just because someone appears to be outgoing and gregarious and likes, a whole lot of banter does not mean that’s what they’re expecting to come back at them. So one of the tricks, particularly for women, is to get very clear about what it is they want and need in the workplace and being able to express that in a way that enables them to get it without offending others. And that goes to your workplace advocate. Comments? Absolutely.

Christine Gautreaux 11:12
Yes, Sarah. Okay, I need to know more about this. Because, you know, we’re in the south. We are Shannon and I are in the south, I was raised in the south, you know, there are some social norms and etiquettes in the south, especially around women like speaking up and sang what they need. And so how do you, how do you help women to first of all identify that, but then also get comfortable in their own bodies, saying it out loud, because I’ve worked with some folks that like, they, it’s so hard for them to say it for them to speak up and be really clear about what they need?

Sarah Brown 11:55
Well, the first, the first rule is that you got to get clear about what it is about you so that you know what it is. And then the second one is to think about and test out how you can get the message across without actually suggesting somebody else is wrong. And if you approach it from the standpoint that there is no way that is right or wrong, they’re just preferences, and my preference is x, there ought to be a way that you can communicate it. So I’ll give you a for example. Some people assume that just because I spend a lot of time listening to other people that that’s what I’m expecting back from them that I want them to be very diplomatic, I want them to be very suggestive, I don’t want them to cut to the chase, so to speak. But in fact, what sends me into a stress spiral is if I think somebody’s beating around the bush, and so what I really need, particularly in an intense situation is for people to cut to the chase and tell me like it is. So how do I get that message across? Well, I got a little paddle sign with a circle like do not so called the red circle with the line through it. And I made a little paddle sign that says with the red circle, do not beat around the bush. And when when I was in a situation where I felt like that was happening, I just held up my paddle fine. And, and it was a humorous way of getting my needs met without making anybody feel right or wrong. There you go. So humor is one way to do it. Another way to do is to say, you know, I, I find that I can be released to contribute more if the following things are in place and describe it that way. So again, doing it in the context of preferences, and like that, and not in the context of you got to do this because it is right or

Christine Gautreaux 14:11
wrong. I love that language about preferences, that we all have our preferences and that my preferences are right. That’s a beautiful way to set that up. I had a baseball analogy coming I’m not sure why but I was thinking that was a beautiful way to lay it up. Shannon, what is the lay up again in

Shannon M. 14:36
baseball, when I think about layup there’s a layup and volleyball it was

Christine Gautreaux 14:39
basketball, basketball, basketball where you know you’re coming on the inside and you’re taking those three steps as you jump. You’re taking a big step you’re jumping. Yeah, it’s I think I know yours. When we connection wisdom podcast, we’re athletes too, but it’s been a minute since I’ve played basketball.

Shannon M. 15:00
Um, but I’ve really liked that, you know? And for me, I think that what you said was you said, how can you approach it in a way that nobody is wrong? Right? So for me, that’s a thin line between making sure nobody’s wrong and still not beating around the bush at the same time. So what was made it so that I can do it and the conversations that I’ve had is going back to the procedure, you know, this company, so it’s not me, it’s not you. But this is what they asked us to do. You know, when when we’re here, they asked us to be xy and z. So if we’re not aligning with that, then what’s going on. And, of course, the verbiage might be different if it’s peer to peer or somebody that’s on my team, and technically, I’m over, or somebody that is technically above me, but again, in order to make it so that it can stay professional and not emotional. I also am intentional about having timely conversations. Now, of course, you can’t have every single conversation and certain conversations won’t be for other people you got to have give the conversation to the person that deserves the conversation if they’re like the way I think about it is like baggage and my God. Mom said I don’t pick up others things. That’s not for me. So this has Sarah’s name on it. Hey, Sarah, would you mind if we talk, you know, if this Christine’s Hey, Christine, you know, let’s talk about what happened. And I leave it open. I say, Hey, what happened when so and so talk to you, there was a situation where somebody on the team under me specifically on my team that I was overheard development came and asked me a question, another woman answered. And the person who came to ask me the question responded back to her and it was taken care of. And I didn’t say anything. So me, I could have said, Oh, well, I felt silenced in the situation, how dare you XYZ. But if we go on the Four Agreements, take nothing personal. Don’t make any assumptions, right? Always do your best be impeccable with your word. Okay, let’s think about it for a second. Let’s slow down. And so I asked the woman I said, what happened in that situation? She said, Oh, wow, I didn’t even notice I’m so used to being the only person that has this login, that I don’t ever think of they’re talking to anybody else. Because it’s been me for years. You know, that’s a good reason, you know, and we were able to let it go and keep moving. But yeah, given it to that person, like you said, and what did you say? How did I

Christine Gautreaux 17:17
want to? Can I jump in? Yes, of course, you I love that analogy about not picking up baggage. It’s not your own? Yeah, because of you know, in Stillpoint, we talk about the five skills of self care. And the very first one is sorting and separating what’s yours and what somebody else’s. And I think that ties in really well with what you’re talking about Sarah, like, about figuring out what’s ours, right? But what’s our purpose? What’s our career? What do we want to get out of it? I think as women, we often pay attention to everybody else around us in our environment, and, you know, our partners or our the people we work with, and sometimes we put our own needs and intentions on the back burner. And so I’m curious about you speaking to that a little bit, Sarah, as far as when you’re talking about career development? And when you’re talking about figuring out your purpose, like, I know, you’ve probably worked with some clients like this before. How do you help women figure out their purpose? Like if they’re in a mid say, they’re in a mismatch job, or they’re just really unhappy or burnout?

Sarah Brown 18:30
Well, I want to speak to that. But Can I comment on one thing Shannon said that I thought was absolutely, as you talked about the importance of not making assumptions. And I think that when women are getting their needs met at work, it’s really important that they not make assumptions, either not make assumptions about intent from anything that they experienced in a relationship with somebody else. That’s number one. And number two, that they not make assumptions around what other people what thinking that other people should know how to interact with them, that that meets their needs. It goes both ways. And I just wanted to highlight because Shane, and I thought that was such a valuable, valuable piece of advice. Don’t make assumptions one way or the other. Out, and often checking it out, as you said, one on one, as opposed to in a group is the way to do it. So I just I didn’t want that to be missed. That was very astute.

Shannon M. 19:35
Thank you. And yes, I hear what you’re saying. But yes, I would still love to hear the answer to you next. Yes.

Sarah Brown 19:43
Okay. So my definition of purpose is this. Doing what you love, using your strength, so that it benefits somebody else? And as many other people as possible, the better it can be. So when you know what it is that you love, and you’re using your strengths to pursue it to the betterment, or benefit of serving others, you’re working on purpose. And the more your job aligns with that, the easier your life is going to be. But when you know your purpose, regardless of what your job is, you can do more of your purpose, regardless of your job. So I don’t ever recommend that people when they get start getting clear about their job that they jumped ship. Not the thing to do, the thing to do is to begin to play with your purpose, more and more in your existing job until the next logical step makes a lot of sense.

Christine Gautreaux 20:54
Oh my gosh, Sara, like those words just lit me up from the inside out. Because I think about, like some of my strengths personally, like I’m a connector, I one of my superpowers is connecting people. And that’s part of this podcast, right? It’s part of connecting women, women connected wisdom pocket, like it’s just right there, right. And it’s about lifting up women’s voices. And I know I’m on purpose. Like, I know that when Shannon and I connected, and we’re in a mastermind group together and had this dream and this vision of lifting up conversations that often women don’t have are afraid to ask or afraid to have across generations and racial lines and all different ways. We like you saying that just lit me up. Because Will you say it again, that purpose is doing what you love doing what you love,

Sarah Brown 21:52
using your strength to serve and benefit others.

Christine Gautreaux 22:00
I just can’t stop smiling. Yeah, that’s awesome.

Sarah Brown 22:08
And the the thing about that is most people know the kinds of things that you love. You know, for example, Christine, that you love connecting with people, you know that you also know that you’re actually good at it. But one of the things that is particularly true about women, is they don’t know what their strengths are. So they may know what they love the kinds of activities that light them up, but they don’t know what their strengths are. And as you know, from having experienced the book of you, I use an assessment to jumpstart that process, which identifies an individual’s interest strengths and behavior and needs. But there are ways that you can go about identifying your strengths, even if you don’t know what they are. And that’s just by going and asking someone who knows and cares about you. When I was at my best, what was I doing? And you will get very good insights into what your strengths are from other people.

Christine Gautreaux 23:11
I love that question. When I was at my best, what was I doing? So like my friend, Shannon, hurt one of her strengths. Sara is organization. Like she is a planner, she is an organizer. Like she see she’s a visionary too, like she sees where the vision goes. But we’re gonna have a women connecting wisdom, personalized planner coming out soon, because it is her strength, and I just see it happening. But I love that. And I love. So here’s the thing that lights me up about that, too. Is you we can connect with each other on this. And yes, Eleanor is listening. And she says that this is a good question to ask yourself to write not just other people, but ask yourself that question. When I was at my best, what was I doing?

Shannon M. 24:04
And you know, what’s interesting is that we say we do know, right? And sometimes we do, but I also believe that sometimes we forget, and it’s just like a relationship, like you almost lose yourself and you turn around and you don’t even know you have left. You know, and when I stepped down from my first salary position, that’s what I realized, like, wow, I do like this. I do. I used to know that what happened? And so that’s why I love that you have this resource for us because it’s really important to sometimes have somebody else ask you the question. So you know, to ask yourself, you know, sometimes you can kind of piece it together but if you don’t have the right words, things just don’t connect all the way

Sarah Brown 24:44
or you are a font of wisdom today Shannon can I build on that comment as well is really important. And the the whole reason that all of the work that I do is framed as coaching because Even when I send somebody a customized report and a book of you, I say, here’s a process to go through with somebody who knows and cares about you. When I’m doing training inside corporations on teaching women how to coach each other, there’s something very magical that happens when we start to voice this to another human being, who knows and cares about us, we get clear about it ourselves even clearer. Or we’ve, we’ve voiced things that we didn’t even know we know. So it’s not the kind of work that I think we can necessarily do ourselves, we can ask ourselves these questions, but until we voice it to another human being, we’re not going to get clear about it ourselves. So another astute observation on your part they are

Christine Gautreaux 25:51
I love it. Like we were just having this conversation was it this week or last week, Shannon, in our we have a weekly manifesting Monday mastermind that we get together with a group of local women who are solopreneurs, and entrepreneurs who support each other in their work. And we have noticed this throughout the years Sara, like, and even in the group that we’re in, that we’ve been a part of, for five years, like, often when we get discouraged. Or when we life is hard. Like it is so good to have people reflecting back to us what we did, or who we are when we’re at our best. And, and especially as women like supporting each other and catching each other and going wait, wait, wait, I know you to be this person. Or don’t forget about this that you did, like, this is amazing, and really helping each other shine. I mean, I think that is a huge piece of it. Agreed.

Shannon M. 26:56
So, especially thinking about women connected in wisdom, right? And, Christine, that’s one of the first things that I thought about with you was every time we taught that manifestation on Mondays when we used to meet and get coffee, you always Oh, I gotta introduce you to this person. Or you say you do this, I got at least two people in two different cities that do these things, you know. So I love you always bringing it back, Sarah, because I feel like what I’ve seen is, with women in the workforce, we’ve been used to it, almost reflecting the social landscape with women, right? And it might be a her against me situation instead of let me tell you how I was able to be successful in this area, just like you said, we have to we have to do peer to peer because there aren’t enough mentors for everybody to have a mentor. And so I loved it when you said that. When you think about all of those things, and the great resignation, we talked about it a little bit before we came online. What do you think? What do you think about it for one? And how do you feel like we as women can pivot? Thinking about me and the book of meat or the book of you write what I need in my environment while still supporting the women that we work with through the great resignation?

Sarah Brown 28:10
Yeah, so what we were talking about was the fact that the great resignation seems to be affecting more women than men. That, in fact, is true. Now, the reason behind that I don’t have any scientific evidence for, but I can give you some hypotheses based on the work that I’ve done in the last couple years. One of the hardest things to get in touch with, particularly for women is what are our needs. And they the best way, I think we have had so far to get as short of a really good assessment. And I’m using an assessment to cut this process short and to kind of jumpstart it. But, but short of that, the best way that we have had to really get clear about what we needed in a work environment was when we were really, really stressed out. And we took time to dial through why am I so stressed out? Like going through five, five why’s, why, why, why, why, and trying to get at what is it that I need that haven’t been able to get? And I believe what the pandemic has done to short circuit this is is we got a taste of different ways of working that we didn’t have before. And we go wow, I’m feeling less stress. Maybe there’s a need here that I didn’t even realize I had, but it’s met now. And there’s a big difference between my experience pre pandemic and post pandemic. And I think I’m going to act on this knowledge that I’ve got now about what’s really working well for me it in terms of a work environment.

Christine Gautreaux 29:59
Whoo. I love that. Sarah, because I can tell you what’s really working well for me is to not be sitting on i 85 in Atlanta traffic for hours to in from gigs that I used to have in Atlanta before. You know, is it it’s so valuable when you think about that, I think especially as women, right, who are often the caretakers, who are often the household managers who were a lot of women in leadership positions are sandwich caregivers, they’re taking care of kids and pets, and they’re taking care of their aging parents. So they’ve got all this around them. And I know, just speaking personally, I love being able to jump off a meeting and run down and switch out the washer to the dryer. So it’s one less thing I have to do all at once, and I have more balance in my life. We were talking about life Jingu before you,

Sarah Brown 30:54
right, and for me, I like not being on an airplane. I like the fact that I’m not losing that time. And you probably heard my puppy in the background. I like being able to walk around the block in between meetings, that helps me to get re centered. And so having that flexibility to do that means a lot in terms of what I’m able to contribute.

Shannon M. 31:23
I love that. What do you like? And for me, it’s been it’s my it’s been so interesting, Sara. So let’s see where to start. So the job the position rollercoaster, okay. When Christina and I first met manifestation, Monday’s four years ago, I was a manager at Papa which I’m about to be again salary manager. And I stepped down, my mom was sick, stepped down back to a server first position. All right, then COVID Shut the restaurant down. I started a business with my unemployment, took multiple SBA classes online, Small Business Association, right making sure I knew the foundation of the different systems and things that I needed, started door dashing, went cleaning corporate buildings. Right then I started at Top Golf as a hourly manager three days a week trying to do DoorDash and my business and podcasting every week. This is too much right? And slowly stepped up into top golf. Then recently, this past January became salary manager. And I’m now moving. Tomorrow is my first day back at puppet Oh, they my old general manager called me back. Right. And that was a goal of mine was for my team that worked with me occupationally, as soon as we were talking about it, right? The team that worked with me, I wanted them to want to be on my team, again, not in a manipulative type of way. But yeah, Shannon, we definitely need her on our team. And so when we’re talking about what was the point that you just made, what really works well, for me, and knowing our needs, and the whole conversation, I’ve been able to enjoy walking outside between meetings. And also, hey, this is what I need in the system, if I’m stepping into it, or if I’m building the system, this is the support that I need. And I had to learn that, you know, telling your teammates, what you need to feel supported. Because you’re not just going to know,

Sarah Brown 33:11
and you’re going to go back and do that job entirely differently. Yeah, you would have?

Shannon M. 33:17
Absolutely, and I look forward to it. And we’re going to step up into the businesses, and then it’ll be, you know, different sides of the roller coaster from there and having fun on that side of the journey. But I think that the first time I’ve really thought about it, Christine, actually is when we were talking about what type of flower Are you? And, and I don’t even know if I got my flower, right. But I landed on red sunflower, you know, and they need very structured environment. So learning that about myself, seeing where it’s okay to not have it. If it’s my business, and I’m setting it up, I can still control the chaos. If it’s somebody else’s business, and I’m setting it up, I might choose to go with a different route for my time, you know, and that’s just me knowing how to what I need and how to move my time and my money pieces so that I can get to the goals that I have for myself based on the overall goal.

Christine Gautreaux 34:09
Yeah, right. Identifying those needs. I forgot you had been the fifth do that flower exercise with me. Yeah. Where were we doing when we did?

Shannon M. 34:17
We were here I think we were talking about on the podcast. Oh, okay.

Christine Gautreaux 34:21
Yeah, it’s an exercise I use often it’s out of the still point book. And it really is talking about and this goes along with what you’re talking about Sarah, but it’s imagining it’s a visual imagination of what type of flower are you and what environment do you grow best in? And really just a matter because there’s all types of different flowers and people and flowers bloom and all kinds of different environments. And that we don’t have to like I don’t have to look at Shannon and go oh, I need this like she’s doing so well in that I know I need to figure out what makes me grow right. Is it the sunshine? Is it having people of all different varieties and colors There’s in different styles around me or, you know, yeah, it’s it’s so interesting to think about what are our needs? And? And I’m curious, and you may not have an answer for this because we did not prep this question at all. But I’m curious about in your experience, when two women usually tap in and figure that out.

Sarah Brown 35:26
Again, I don’t have scientific evidence on that. But I will give you anecdotal evidence from the work that I’m doing right now and the work and what I saw what I saw when I in my last few years of Accenture, they’re ready to tap into it when their kids are old enough that they can go to school, and they don’t require 100% supervision. So it’s then that women begin to have enough breathing room that they can tap into, what is it that are their interests, strengths and needs. But what so often happens is, is they look around and they see say, their husband’s career has just continued to take off, and they go, I’ve been left in the dust, and I don’t know what it is that I really want. And so that’s why I am really focused on working predominantly with mid career professional women who are at that stage, and are trying to get the clarity and they’ve got enough bandwidth right now that they can actually pursue it. So again, no scientific evidence. It’s all anecdotal evidence at this point,

Christine Gautreaux 36:49
right? Well, because a lot of folks, I mean, I think this new generation is different. And I mean, Shannon is one of those like, she’s figuring this out, like, so greatly. Right?

Shannon M. 36:58
Like I talk about it, though, because it’s different. Right. So So I think it’s different again, because Sarah keeps making a point. And it’s so important, the research, right? We we’re not out here, just with opinions, especially with a PhD. I know you respect the efficacy of research, you know, so knowing what the numbers actually say, because sometimes you might find something surprising and not even lead to the answer that you were looking for. But for this specifically, it makes sense, right? Women were getting married younger, we weren’t professional, we weren’t CEOs and building businesses and having assets and land, we weren’t able to have land under our name. We weren’t having credit cards until a few decades ago. So with us talking about when women are realizing it, for me, that speaks to the space that they have for themselves, right? This generation. And I haven’t looked up the research for this either. But what I’ve been to the understanding of is that we’re having kids later, right? We’re not having children in our teenage years, and having such a big families and things like that. So it makes sense that at the age that the children go to school, now my day, I have more time freedom, right? Somebody’s taking these blocks of time, instead of what I would have been cleaning up and entertaining and educating them and cooking and cleaning. Now what do I want? Me thankfully, I’ve been in a position, I don’t have children. So I’ve been able to keep that time for myself. And through the transition with still dealing with family situations. My mom was sick. And it made me question, do I want to stay here? Or do I want to go spend time with my mom, you know, like those life, those pivotal life situations or change the perspective really quickly. And again, I’ve been blessed to be able to be born in an age where we can do this stuff online, I can set up an online business real quick with unemployment, that would have been unheard of a few years ago. So those things, the children the age that you have children, the way you’re even thinking about professionalism. Again, occupational wellness is a category. So I would argue that there’s a certain level of literacy through certain things, you know, how you know, to read environments and to read situations. So I think that might be part of why it’s different now.

Christine Gautreaux 39:11
I think that literacy piece is huge, Shannon, I mean, like tools like Sarah’s book of you. Like, I didn’t have that when I was like trying to figure out what I wanted to be in the world. And like, we really have resources at our fingertips now to figure out our purpose and to figure out and to connect with awesome coaches like Sarah and be able to, yeah, I think it’s amazing.

Shannon M. 39:37
And I think that’s why this is so important. I know when I was in school, I struggled more writing a paper if you told me to write about anything, than if you gave me five random topics, I would rather you give me an elephant and a Q tip and write a paper out figure it out. Then tell me to write about anything, you know. So now with a lot libraries in Google that at our fingertips, all these things I feel like for some, it might make it more difficult to know where to start. And that’s why I love that we categorize it and bring experts on like Sarah, like ourselves who can point to okay, this is what we’re talking about. If you need this, you know, reach out to Sarah, she can help you find out what you need, specifically in your environment, if you need coaching on different things, you know, Christine can help you and we’re building all of these resources. So absolutely.

Christine Gautreaux 40:24
Well, and that’s the whole piece about women being connected, right? That that there is enough work for all of us. And we have so many skills, and we have so many resources that when we hook up your watch out, like we can, we can do an like, we could do it. I wanted to lift up a comment that was made a little bit ago, because it was really good one, it was just talking about being purposeful. And that question that you asked her what was I doing? When I was at my best? It’s an exceptional, open ended question to ask yourself and others you trust and respect. And I wanted to bring up that point about trust and respect. You know, Brene, Brown says Not everybody deserves our vulnerability. So making sure how Sarah, do you encourage people to figure out who they trust and respect at work? Like how do you

Shannon M. 41:18
do that? That’s a whole nother show. Another hour?

Sarah Brown 41:27
There’s not a practical answer to that, Christine. And I think we have to accept the fact that when we take a risk and open up, some time somebody is going to do something that we think violates our trust. But it’s still worth doing. And so I suggest that you just find somebody that’s like minded, in my mind. And that’s why I’m spending so much time teaching women how to peer and self coach, the best place to start is with your female peers. Use your interactions with them to get very clear about what it is you want, what your strengths are, they know they observe you they know what your strengths are. So you can ask that open ended question from them. Just use that question as a starting point. Do you like the answer you’re getting back? Do you feel comfortable that they’re giving it to you straight? Do you feel comfortable that they’re they’re sharing with you authentically. So use your peer females to get started, and then you will begin to understand what it is that you need from others and you can seek it out in higher ups or in men.

Christine Gautreaux 42:50
I love it. I love it. Alright, y’all, we’re starting to wrap we’re getting to that time of day. So I already have mine. So I want to jump in here from my hashtag wisdom and inaction. Because mine today is Hashtag ask the question. Ask the question. And as your friends and colleagues what your strengths are when you’re at your best.

Shannon M. 43:14
That’s what I was gonna ask you. Do you mean that specific question, are you saying if you need to talk some somebody and you have a question for them, ask a question.

Christine Gautreaux 43:24
Go with that open ended question to find purpose and to find your strengths. Because you know, I’m strength based. That’s my training is to be strength based. So I love this whole thing that you’re talking about, sir.

Shannon M. 43:35
Yeah. And I appreciate the reminder because I had been thinking about my weaknesses in general, too, right? We do SWOT analysis psi. And it’s important to make sure that your weaknesses are getting stronger, but also operating in your strengths because it does make it easier and we’re doing a lot I like the way that feels. So that will be my hashtag hashtag operating in my strengths. And I have a second one you know, I’ve been to in too recently. Where is it? I guess that will be my one since my my first one is lost in the notes. Oh, no, I found it. Hashtag charged phone and the hashtag for gas tank because of the indicators. You know, make sure you’re charged up and that you’re connected and ready to pour out as we operate in our strengths. Yeah,

Christine Gautreaux 44:27
hashtag charge up. I like it. What would you have for Sarah and our listeners? What was your hashtag me?

Sarah Brown 44:32
Can you do a quote from? Well, as we were going through this conversation, I was thinking about a country and western song that has the line, do what you love and call it work. I think that’s what we’re looking for when we’re finding our purpose is what do we love that we can go work?

Christine Gautreaux 44:54
Oh, you know what I love? I love talking to amazing people like you that give us these resources that shine in the world. And you know, Sarah Brown, we are so delighted to know you and be connected with you. And thank you for coming on today and sharing your brilliance with us.

Sarah Brown 45:14
Thank you for having me. This was fun. Yeah, absolutely soon,

Christine Gautreaux 45:17
my friend, you soon. Oh, my goodness, what a great conversation. I see you over there, like just reflecting and taking what what stood out for you in today’s conversation

Shannon M. 45:33
stood out for me was intentionally was the book, right? It’s a book of you. And I feel like I have a five year list of books that I want to get through now. But really being intentional about your needs in the workplace. I think about that in social relationships, right? Our relationships, as friends as business partners, right? As partners on projects, I think about it in romantic relationships. But I usually don’t go into the work until now into a work situation like what are my needs? In this situation? I might say, What is my job? What do I need to do? But not what are my needs. And I think that’s a healthy way to to move forward. And I get everything done.

Christine Gautreaux 46:14
Right. And we ran out of time to say Sarah has three books. So we’ll put links to them in our show notes. Because she is a font of wisdom for folks to learn from. And it is just, you know, I feel so lucky and grateful for the women that were connected to and that teach us along this way, like how to do this right? How to have good occupational wellness, and and that there’s tools out there. So you don’t have to suffer that if things aren’t going well, that you there are tools to help you figure out your purpose and what works for you, in your work and in your life. Right. Speaking about what’s working for you, my friend, how is it going over at Shiloh glow? And is there anything our listeners need to know about our sponsor?

Shannon M. 47:04
Oh, so many big things going on. We are in the middle of rebranding. And something else about occupational wellness, you know, sometimes you make a decision and you choose to to make a different decision. So we’re going with the glass containers. So excited outside of that, that is what I will say. And everything is sold out right now. So if you are interested, yes, reach out to Shiloh glow. We still have the glow kits coming. We still have the butters, the oils and the sugar scrub. But we are rebranding and gonna come back stronger. And that’s what we have going on. What about you on wisdom and wings coaching?

Christine Gautreaux 47:44
Um, well, you know, I have a lot of fun Interplay events coming up. And I have a life practice program for helping professionals that people can get continuing education units for and I also have just some fun events to come join us to check in. And you know, latest research talks about how the power of play helps reduce stress, it helps our brains to become more where we can remember things and have better, less toxicity. And I think I mentioned it on the podcast a little ways back, but Andrew Huberman at the Huberman lab, he has a lot of good info about the power of play. Speaking of podcasts, you know what we didn’t talk about either. Sara has a podcast, the kts factor you and so that I’m gonna link that in our show notes so people can also check out her podcast about women leadership. Yes, I need to put that

Shannon M. 48:41
on my list too. And yes, we mentioned it in her bio, but not when she came on and that would be great to have that.

Christine Gautreaux 48:46
All right, my friend. I think it’s about that time believe it or not,

Shannon M. 48:51
what we’ve only done this 62 times but I’m still not ready to go. I can always keep going with these conversations. Okay. Until next time, Episode 63. Don’t forget be well be wise, and the whole

Unknown Speaker 49:17
thanks for listening. This has been the women connected and wisdom podcast on-air live on Wednesdays at 5 pm. Eastern via Facebook and YouTube. Be sure to like, share and subscribe be part of the conversation and get connected at women connected in wisdom.com.